Interview: Jason Swett (Organizer)

Jason’s X: https://www.x.com/JasonSwett

Jason’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonswett/

Transcript

1 00:00:04.880 –> 00:00:09.718 Travis Dockter: Okay, all right. Well, welcome to these.

2 00:00:10.560 –> 00:00:14.439 Travis Dockter: I’ve been saying many different adjectives, but

3 00:00:14.580 –> 00:00:30.709 Travis Dockter: impromptu unofficial, or a couple of them organizer chats that I’ve been having. A little bit of context for you. So actually,

4 00:00:32.159 –> 00:00:42.380 Travis Dockter: you are the organizer of, or former organizer, we’ll say of Sin City ruby, which is going to be an interesting chat

5 00:00:42.870 –> 00:00:52.949 Travis Dockter: specifically, because you’re the 1st organizer that I’m speaking to, that I actually have been to your conference multiple times.

6 00:00:53.530 –> 00:00:54.429 Travis Dockter: so that’s gonna

7 00:00:54.880 –> 00:01:08.129 Travis Dockter: kind of get to see a little bit of behind the scenes of a conference that I got to see. You know, from a firsthand perspective. And you also have a kind of an interesting

8 00:01:08.920 –> 00:01:17.729 Travis Dockter: and ask people about their 1st conference, because I kind of want to know, like, maybe

9 00:01:18.080 –> 00:01:40.619 Travis Dockter: what they learned from their 1st conference to their last conference and kind of you know what what their 1st experience was like, so that maybe I can avoid some of the pitfalls, or just do some of the things as if I were a more experienced organizer. Right? So

10 00:01:41.050 –> 00:01:56.820 Travis Dockter: you have a very unique origin story for your conference, because you never planned to have a conference. At 1st you booked space for a class, and then you found it hard to sell tickets for a class. And so you pivoted to

11 00:01:58.040 –> 00:02:03.040 Travis Dockter: what was that? What was that experience like. And what was it like to

12 00:02:03.330 –> 00:02:11.009 Travis Dockter: kind of have in mind? Okay, I’m I’m doing this class. And then all of a sudden, you’re organizing a conference. What was that kind of like.

13 00:02:11.710 –> 00:02:17.270 Jason Swett: Yeah, it was not as big of a deal as it might sound like, because

14 00:02:17.420 –> 00:02:20.999 Jason Swett: conference doesn’t have to mean like a big

15 00:02:21.110 –> 00:02:32.399 Jason Swett: rails Comp type thing or something like that. It can just be a small get together. And I had talked previously with Andy Kroll, who organizes Bright and Ruby.

16 00:02:32.540 –> 00:02:41.789 Jason Swett: and he had said that when he did the 1st Brighton ruby he planned it such that if only 50 people came that would be okay.

17 00:02:42.390 –> 00:02:44.580 Jason Swett: And so I kept that in mind.

18 00:02:45.000 –> 00:02:49.829 Jason Swett: and indeed we had maybe about 40 people ultimately come to that 1st one

19 00:02:51.140 –> 00:02:54.649 Jason Swett: and it was okay. I lost a little bit of money, but not much

20 00:02:56.720 –> 00:03:07.549 Jason Swett: and it felt kind of like a meetup, almost, because it was just small. I’ve certainly been to meetups that are a lot bigger than the 1st Sin City ruby was.

21 00:03:08.531 –> 00:03:13.229 Jason Swett: So yeah, it. It didn’t feel like that big of a deal.

22 00:03:13.440 –> 00:03:19.980 Jason Swett: There was some money on the line and all that stuff. But the numbers weren’t huge, and it wasn’t all that stressful.

23 00:03:20.410 –> 00:03:21.190 Travis Dockter: Did you?

24 00:03:22.260 –> 00:03:28.759 Travis Dockter: Or you knew you were organizing a conference, or once you knew you were organizing conference. Then you reached out to him.

25 00:03:29.110 –> 00:03:30.980 Travis Dockter: When did that conversation happen?

26 00:03:31.270 –> 00:03:34.310 Jason Swett: Sorry the connection’s a little choppy. Can you say that again?

27 00:03:34.310 –> 00:03:39.860 Travis Dockter: Okay, yeah. So when did you did you talk to Andy Kroll after

28 00:03:40.380 –> 00:03:42.259 Travis Dockter: conference and like, reached out to him.

29 00:03:42.260 –> 00:03:48.330 Jason Swett: No. I think I talked to him before, just on the podcast. On the code, with Jason podcast.

30 00:03:48.330 –> 00:03:53.479 Travis Dockter: Oh, okay, nice gotcha how long did you have

31 00:03:53.680 –> 00:04:04.539 Travis Dockter: to kind of pull that 1st one together? And was it kind of a rush to like, get speakers and sponsors and stuff. How much of that were you able to do.

32 00:04:04.770 –> 00:04:06.469 Jason Swett: I had a decent amount of time.

33 00:04:06.670 –> 00:04:16.399 Jason Swett: I remember that it was 2022 when the conference occurred, and so I had started planning it

34 00:04:16.500 –> 00:04:23.159 Jason Swett: around the fall of 2021, so fall of 2021 to

35 00:04:23.370 –> 00:04:26.630 Jason Swett: march, or April of 2022.

36 00:04:26.740 –> 00:04:29.599 Jason Swett: So I had a number of months.

37 00:04:29.600 –> 00:04:30.000 Travis Dockter: Okay.

38 00:04:30.000 –> 00:04:39.630 Jason Swett: For me. Getting speakers was easy. I chose not to do a Cfp. Or anything like that, because I wanted to to keep the

39 00:04:39.860 –> 00:04:42.470 Jason Swett: the workload as light as possible.

40 00:04:43.210 –> 00:04:45.790 Jason Swett: So I just handpicked the speakers.

41 00:04:46.020 –> 00:04:50.759 Jason Swett: And I already knew people from my podcast so that was pretty easy

42 00:04:52.930 –> 00:04:56.119 Jason Swett: and then let’s see, there was another part of your question, but I don’t remember what it was.

43 00:04:56.120 –> 00:04:58.749 Travis Dockter: Were there? Were there any sponsors for that 1st one.

44 00:04:58.750 –> 00:05:04.840 Jason Swett: No, I chose not to do sponsors, because again, I wanted to keep the workload light and keep it simple.

45 00:05:04.840 –> 00:05:08.419 Travis Dockter: Gotcha. So did you? Did you?

46 00:05:09.590 –> 00:05:16.629 Travis Dockter: That you could like try to break even with just ticket sales for that for that 1st one.

47 00:05:17.580 –> 00:05:28.360 Jason Swett: Yeah. I thought there was a good likelihood that I could break even, and I came pretty close. I think we lost like 2,000 bucks on that event.

48 00:05:28.890 –> 00:05:32.390 Jason Swett: And it was here. Here’s a mistake that I made.

49 00:05:33.093 –> 00:05:39.406 Jason Swett: So my wife core co-organizes the event. That’s not the mistake.

50 00:05:41.620 –> 00:05:47.960 Jason Swett: I’m just saying that for context. But we chose to do catering for that 1st conference.

51 00:05:47.960 –> 00:05:48.320 Travis Dockter: Hmm.

52 00:05:49.550 –> 00:06:00.009 Jason Swett: and it cost it cost an insane amount. I don’t remember, but it was like 40 bucks a person, for, like a crappy sandwich, and some chips, or something like that.

53 00:06:00.010 –> 00:06:00.740 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

54 00:06:01.613 –> 00:06:18.920 Jason Swett: And so I don’t know. 40 times 40 is 1,600. It was, I think it was more than that even but like nobody. It turns out nobody was expecting us to provide food, and, like hardly anybody, even ate the food they like, went out to lunch.

55 00:06:18.920 –> 00:06:19.320 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

56 00:06:19.320 –> 00:06:27.439 Jason Swett: And so that was kind of just like a total waste. And if we hadn’t done that we would have been in the black instead of in the red.

57 00:06:27.690 –> 00:06:28.080 Travis Dockter: Right.

58 00:06:28.080 –> 00:06:36.779 Jason Swett: For the following 2 years, because I did it a total of 3 times the following 2 years. I didn’t do catering.

59 00:06:37.230 –> 00:06:38.896 Travis Dockter: Gotcha? Yeah.

60 00:06:41.170 –> 00:07:03.239 Travis Dockter: when you went to do sponsors the second year, did that factor in like, did you come up with a budget of like, okay, I’m gonna set ticket prices here. And I, wanna, I have a goal of like getting this much sponsorship money. Did you kind of plan that out that way, or how did you think about that?

61 00:07:03.960 –> 00:07:09.519 Jason Swett: I didn’t have a goal. I just wanted to get as many sponsors as I realistically could.

62 00:07:11.130 –> 00:07:22.149 Jason Swett: so I did no sponsors the 1st 2 years, and then the 3rd and final year was the only year in which I did sponsors. I just made a list of like the

63 00:07:22.220 –> 00:07:48.130 Jason Swett: places that I knew of, that I thought might be sponsors like I looked at people who had sponsored other conferences and stuff like that, and I thought of like people I knew and stuff like that. I think the 1st place I reached out to was evil Martians, because I know arena from evil Martians, and I know that they sponsor a lot of conferences. So I reached out to her and she said, Yes.

64 00:07:48.886 –> 00:07:52.043 Jason Swett: got a couple other sponsors, too.

65 00:07:52.790 –> 00:07:56.090 Jason Swett: and financially that helped out a lot.

66 00:07:57.490 –> 00:08:04.090 Jason Swett: I think I got somewhere in the neighborhood of like $10,000 worth of sponsorship that 3rd year.

67 00:08:04.560 –> 00:08:05.490 Jason Swett: Gotcha.

68 00:08:05.610 –> 00:08:11.719 Jason Swett: But the expenses for that 3rd year were also really high, and I ended up losing

69 00:08:11.860 –> 00:08:23.150 Jason Swett: a lot of money. But that’s a different story with the sponsors. Yeah, I just kind of made a list, and then went through and asked people. Some people said no, and some people said, Yes.

70 00:08:23.630 –> 00:08:26.430 Travis Dockter: Was it? Was it a lot of

71 00:08:27.130 –> 00:08:33.669 Travis Dockter: connections with people you already knew? Or were you doing some like cold outreach just reaching out to people you didn’t know, asking them to sponsor.

72 00:08:34.400 –> 00:08:40.580 Jason Swett: I think both, but definitely, mostly people I already knew.

73 00:08:40.750 –> 00:08:41.210 Travis Dockter: Hmm.

74 00:08:41.210 –> 00:08:48.000 Jason Swett: And in fact, maybe entirely people I already knew. I don’t remember now, because it was a bit ago that I was going through

75 00:08:48.390 –> 00:08:49.710 Jason Swett: all that.

76 00:08:50.313 –> 00:08:54.180 Jason Swett: Let’s see, there was evil Martians cedar code.

77 00:08:54.840 –> 00:09:01.479 Jason Swett: Cisco Meraki sponsored, which is actually where I where I work now. Incidentally,

78 00:09:03.930 –> 00:09:07.900 Jason Swett: And I feel bad if I’m forgetting anybody, but I think those were the 3.

79 00:09:08.800 –> 00:09:11.860 Travis Dockter: Yeah. Okay.

80 00:09:12.500 –> 00:09:24.649 Travis Dockter: And you mentioned earlier that you you don’t do a Cfp or you didn’t do Cfp, you just kind of chose your speakers. Did you have any kind of

81 00:09:26.420 –> 00:09:30.510 Travis Dockter: I don’t know. Plan, for when you were reaching out to people did you want to like.

82 00:09:32.270 –> 00:09:39.869 Travis Dockter: or did you just kind of reach out to people that you liked, and ask them to to do whatever talk.

83 00:09:40.730 –> 00:09:47.740 Jason Swett: Yeah, I just reached out to people who I thought would make sense. You know, some people have kind of a draw

84 00:09:48.462 –> 00:09:50.269 Jason Swett: like, for example.

85 00:09:50.390 –> 00:10:02.660 Jason Swett: I think I tried to get Chris Oliver to speak for at least 2 years, maybe even all 3 times. On the 3rd time I finally got him, and he came and spoke.

86 00:10:02.760 –> 00:10:10.410 Jason Swett: but I picked him largely because I thought he would have a draw. You know he’s he’s very much a known entity in the ruby community.

87 00:10:10.530 –> 00:10:11.099 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

88 00:10:12.080 –> 00:10:14.840 Jason Swett: So I kind of did it like that.

89 00:10:17.210 –> 00:10:23.780 Jason Swett: yeah. And that’s that’s how it went. I really had no interest in ever doing a Cfp, because that just sounds like a lot of work.

90 00:10:24.410 –> 00:10:26.040 Travis Dockter: Did you? Did you

91 00:10:26.440 –> 00:10:33.470 Travis Dockter: give speakers any guidance on what their talk should be like? Or you just said you have 30 min.

92 00:10:33.660 –> 00:10:34.960 Travis Dockter: whatever you want.

93 00:10:35.802 –> 00:10:50.437 Jason Swett: If they asked for guidance, I I would give that to them for sure. Most of the people were pretty experienced conference speakers, so they didn’t really need it. They only ask questions like, How long do you want my talk to be? And stuff like that? Right?

94 00:10:51.180 –> 00:10:56.609 Jason Swett: I have, I think probably every year I’ve had at least 1 1st time speaker

95 00:10:57.192 –> 00:11:09.399 Jason Swett: and sometimes they’ve asked for some some guidance. Like, hey? I’m thinking of speaking about this? Does that sound good, whatever and so I I

96 00:11:09.560 –> 00:11:15.240 Jason Swett: give them some feedback on that, and just in general, like how

97 00:11:15.590 –> 00:11:21.199 Jason Swett: how long their talk should be like, I tell people that shorter is better.

98 00:11:21.931 –> 00:11:27.880 Jason Swett: Like. Don’t feel like you have to fill 45 min or something like that like.

99 00:11:28.010 –> 00:11:30.819 Jason Swett: if you go and speak for 20 min like

100 00:11:31.240 –> 00:11:36.590 Jason Swett: no one has ever been sad, that a talk was like too short, you know.

101 00:11:36.590 –> 00:11:37.330 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

102 00:11:38.730 –> 00:11:43.439 Jason Swett: Something I heard once about public speaking is, people are just waiting for you to be done.

103 00:11:44.495 –> 00:11:44.830 Travis Dockter: And.

104 00:11:44.830 –> 00:11:46.809 Jason Swett: And it’s it’s kind of a sad truth.

105 00:11:48.880 –> 00:11:55.800 Jason Swett: but yeah, I gave advice to those newer speakers, but again, a lot of them were already quite experienced.

106 00:11:56.140 –> 00:12:00.699 Travis Dockter: Gotcha did you? Do? Did you like

107 00:12:01.000 –> 00:12:05.780 Travis Dockter: pay for speakers? Travel, or give them a honorarium, or anything like that?

108 00:12:06.520 –> 00:12:17.270 Jason Swett: Yeah, we did what we could for for speakers, I think all 3 years. What we did was we just gave them an honorarium.

109 00:12:17.650 –> 00:12:25.219 Jason Swett: and I have never looked up the definition of honorarium. But I think it’s kind of like

110 00:12:25.740 –> 00:12:40.319 Jason Swett: this is some money that we’re giving you. We know that it’s not nearly as much as we should be giving you. But here’s something as like a token of our appreciation that can at least help cover your travel a little bit.

111 00:12:40.320 –> 00:12:40.790 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

112 00:12:40.790 –> 00:12:43.149 Jason Swett: And I base the amount on

113 00:12:43.490 –> 00:13:03.039 Jason Swett: what I had been paid at conferences that I’ve spoken at in past years, which is usually $0. But some conferences I’ve I’ve gone to, and they pay like a $500 honorarium or something like that. So I based that on that.

114 00:13:03.560 –> 00:13:04.775 Travis Dockter: Gotcha

115 00:13:07.840 –> 00:13:10.880 Travis Dockter: Let’s see, I have some other questions here.

116 00:13:11.800 –> 00:13:18.739 Travis Dockter: So you have mentioned that you are done with, since

117 00:13:20.380 –> 00:13:28.060 Travis Dockter: you might do other ruby events in the future. Can you give us any idea of like what you’re thinking about, and how

118 00:13:28.220 –> 00:13:33.849 Travis Dockter: you’re thinking about doing things differently from Sin City ruby, or maybe just conferences in general.

119 00:13:34.271 –> 00:13:40.598 Jason Swett: Yeah, there’s 2 main reasons. I’m not inclined to do more sin city ruby events.

120 00:13:41.210 –> 00:13:49.120 Jason Swett: one is that sin city ruby happens in Las Vegas, and I live in Michigan, and that’s a long ways away.

121 00:13:50.710 –> 00:13:59.630 Jason Swett: And the other is in Las Vegas. It’s hard to find a venue that is affordable

122 00:13:59.790 –> 00:14:03.530 Jason Swett: and like checks all the boxes we need to check and stuff like that.

123 00:14:04.660 –> 00:14:05.400 Jason Swett: And

124 00:14:05.920 –> 00:14:16.760 Jason Swett: the 3rd Sin City ruby was just a big financial risk for us, and, like I mentioned, we we lost a lot of money. So I don’t want to do that again.

125 00:14:18.790 –> 00:14:20.449 Jason Swett: But what I would.

126 00:14:20.810 –> 00:14:25.039 Jason Swett: What I would entertain is the idea of doing a lower risk event.

127 00:14:25.796 –> 00:14:36.070 Jason Swett: Something where you know to Andy Kroll’s point. If only 50 people show up, that’s fine, it’ll still be profitable, whatever. I don’t want to pay a

128 00:14:36.600 –> 00:14:46.479 Jason Swett: $26,000, food and beverage minimum for a two-day event like I had to for Sin City ruby 2025. That was nuts.

129 00:14:46.835 –> 00:14:47.190 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

130 00:14:48.450 –> 00:14:49.879 Jason Swett: So that kind of thing.

131 00:14:51.270 –> 00:14:53.910 Jason Swett: And if I were to have it like in Michigan.

132 00:14:54.050 –> 00:15:04.010 Jason Swett: like driving distance from my house, that would be a lot different and and a lot better in a lot of ways, because, for example, I could like, just go drive over and scope out the venue.

133 00:15:04.255 –> 00:15:04.500 Travis Dockter: No.

134 00:15:04.868 –> 00:15:06.340 Jason Swett: Without having to like

135 00:15:06.830 –> 00:15:19.759 Jason Swett: pay to go to Las Vegas like Fly there and do this whole thing just to check out the venue. You know. We never did that, because that wasn’t a realistic that would just like eat away at the

136 00:15:20.420 –> 00:15:22.809 Jason Swett: that would raise the expenses so much.

137 00:15:22.810 –> 00:15:23.320 Travis Dockter: Right.

138 00:15:23.714 –> 00:15:33.175 Jason Swett: So I don’t wanna have to do anything like that. I’d rather do something closer. I don’t have anything specific in the works.

139 00:15:34.010 –> 00:15:35.490 Jason Swett: frankly, for the last

140 00:15:35.770 –> 00:15:42.000 Jason Swett: few months I’ve been kind of burnt out, and so I’m not ready to think about anything like that.

141 00:15:42.150 –> 00:15:42.830 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

142 00:15:42.830 –> 00:15:56.500 Jason Swett: I’m trying to shed things and lighten my workload and not try to take on new things. But when I’m ready to think about that kind of stuff. I think it’ll probably be in Michigan if it happens at all.

143 00:15:57.630 –> 00:16:03.166 Travis Dockter: So I’m actually in the the venue process right now.

144 00:16:04.210 –> 00:16:07.090 Travis Dockter: What was it like working with

145 00:16:07.746 –> 00:16:22.380 Travis Dockter: the venues for for Sin city ruby. I know you had the tropicana the 1st 2 years is. And I know Vegas is probably gonna be different than a lot of places because they’re

146 00:16:22.660 –> 00:16:32.020 Travis Dockter: they do this right? It’s the conferences are are a big thing there. So I’m sure it’s a little bit different working with them. But what was like the process for getting a venue. There.

147 00:16:34.090 –> 00:16:57.579 Jason Swett: It was positively awful. All of the hotel people are the absolute worst. You would think that this being their main job, they would be like good at it. But no, they’re terrible at it like unbelievably and we actually one year we looked into doing a conference instead of Las Vegas. We looked into doing it in Puerto Rico.

148 00:16:59.500 –> 00:17:01.010 Jason Swett: And our experience

149 00:17:01.130 –> 00:17:11.859 Jason Swett: in both places was similar. Like, 1st of all, good luck, even getting a response from the hotel. Yeah, it’s like, hey? We want to give you tens of thousands of dollars. Do you want to talk about that?

150 00:17:12.250 –> 00:17:21.760 Jason Swett: No, they’re they’re not all interested in that conversation. And then, if you do get a response, it might be a really long time later.

151 00:17:22.040 –> 00:17:31.678 Jason Swett: and they might like just totally miss really important stuff, or ask like inane questions.

152 00:17:34.070 –> 00:17:44.500 Jason Swett: Ask you the same questions you already answered to them and and like pass you around to different people and stuff like that. And it’s just an enormous hassle.

153 00:17:45.410 –> 00:17:55.169 Jason Swett: I heard on a podcast. Once, this guy, Joe Paula, she said, a lot of businesses don’t have a sales department. They have a sales prevention department.

154 00:17:56.180 –> 00:18:01.110 Jason Swett: and that’s what it felt like I was dealing with. I was dealing with the Sales Prevention Department.

155 00:18:01.110 –> 00:18:01.960 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

156 00:18:02.348 –> 00:18:14.499 Jason Swett: And then once I got into the process, okay, so you usually fill out because he asked about the process. I usually you usually fill out a form. They ask you like, how many people you’re expecting, what dates you’re thinking, and all that kind of stuff

157 00:18:15.360 –> 00:18:18.930 Jason Swett: they’ll contact you, and you know.

158 00:18:19.070 –> 00:18:28.490 Jason Swett: give you an email that’s worded in such a way that it doesn’t make any sense. And you have to respond and ask, what do you mean and stuff like that. But anyway, a conversation starts

159 00:18:30.130 –> 00:18:37.830 Jason Swett: and and they’re going to want some kind of deposit or something like that.

160 00:18:37.930 –> 00:18:43.550 Jason Swett: So you do that get the scheduling taken care of?

161 00:18:44.108 –> 00:18:51.280 Jason Swett: Maybe there’s a little bit of like negotiation around budget and stuff like that quite often.

162 00:18:51.520 –> 00:19:04.759 Jason Swett: In fact, I found this universally to be the case in Las Vegas. They require you to have a room block in connection with your event, because they want that, like guaranteed revenue from you. Yeah.

163 00:19:05.010 –> 00:19:06.969 Jason Swett: So in order to do this one.

164 00:19:07.160 –> 00:19:13.799 Jason Swett: we had to have you know, we were expecting, like we told them, a hundred people. But like we don’t know, we just have to guess. You know.

165 00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:30.930 Jason Swett: we said a hundred people. So they made us do a room block for a hundred people, and we had to fill that to at least 80%. And if we didn’t fill it to 80%, then we would be responsible for for any rooms that we didn’t fill.

166 00:19:33.930 –> 00:19:37.329 Jason Swett: So that’s a big part of where the risk comes from.

167 00:19:38.100 –> 00:19:50.909 Jason Swett: And then and you know this hotel. I don’t remember how much a night, but like multiply a couple 100 bucks a night times, 2 nights times 80 rooms.

168 00:19:51.170 –> 00:19:56.350 Jason Swett: That’s a pretty big number, you know, and that’s the number that we were on the hook for.

169 00:19:56.860 –> 00:20:06.410 Jason Swett: and then on top of that. In this case the like $26,000, food and beverage, minimum, or whatever it was because again they want that guaranteed revenue.

170 00:20:07.980 –> 00:20:09.969 Jason Swett: I think we spent like

171 00:20:10.760 –> 00:20:15.370 Jason Swett: I don’t remember. But it was. It was some. It was in the thousands

172 00:20:15.530 –> 00:20:19.060 Jason Swett: we spent thousands of dollars on bottled water.

173 00:20:20.180 –> 00:20:22.970 Jason Swett: Yeah, yeah,

174 00:20:24.150 –> 00:20:27.220 Jason Swett: And you know, water. Quite a lot of the time is free.

175 00:20:27.450 –> 00:20:27.850 Jason Swett: Yeah.

176 00:20:28.270 –> 00:20:37.460 Jason Swett: just like in the world, you know. You can go to a drinking fountain and just drink some water. Nobody charges you. In this case. We paid thousands of dollars for water.

177 00:20:37.710 –> 00:20:39.199 Jason Swett: so that was cool.

178 00:20:39.682 –> 00:20:44.620 Jason Swett: So I don’t really recommend working with hotels, because they’re just the absolute worst

179 00:20:45.390 –> 00:20:49.940 Jason Swett: and they’re like, not nice, not friendly.

180 00:20:50.479 –> 00:20:56.489 Jason Swett: It’s just awful so screw them. I’m never going to work with them again.

181 00:20:57.050 –> 00:21:03.399 Travis Dockter: Yeah, I’ve yeah. I’ve had similar experience so far, where it’s just it’s

182 00:21:03.650 –> 00:21:22.399 Travis Dockter: I also naively just thought this would be an easy part of the process, because I am going to give them thousands of dollars, and I thought they would, they would be selling me. But instead, I’m like chasing them, trying to to give them money.

183 00:21:23.160 –> 00:21:25.968 Travis Dockter: Which yeah is confusing.

184 00:21:26.970 –> 00:21:32.355 Travis Dockter: But yeah, okay.

185 00:21:35.890 –> 00:21:43.700 Travis Dockter: How did you? You mentioned your your wife was a co-organizer. How did you guys split responsibilities?

186 00:21:45.900 –> 00:21:50.900 Jason Swett: For 2025. She took care of almost all the hotel stuff.

187 00:21:50.900 –> 00:21:51.610 Travis Dockter: Hmm.

188 00:21:51.610 –> 00:22:00.630 Jason Swett: So she did a lot of, you know, very painful work coordinating with these hotels. She handled all the

189 00:22:00.760 –> 00:22:02.710 Jason Swett: financial stuff and all that.

190 00:22:03.753 –> 00:22:14.389 Jason Swett: Basically, I was responsible for the sales and marketing of it. And she was responsible for everything else. She made the website everything else.

191 00:22:14.670 –> 00:22:21.120 Travis Dockter: Nice. What what did you do for for marketing? And did that change from year to year?

192 00:22:22.030 –> 00:22:27.084 Jason Swett: Yeah, so kind of everything that I do is marketing

193 00:22:28.130 –> 00:22:42.669 Jason Swett: whether I intended it to be marketing for the conference at the time that I did it or not. You know, like the podcast that I’ve been doing for the last, however, many years, 250 plus episodes worth

194 00:22:42.950 –> 00:23:08.799 Jason Swett: all that is marketing that benefited the conference. I didn’t intend for it to be exactly that at the time I did it, except right before I did it. You know, when I when I knew that I was going to do it, but that helped all the writing that I’ve done that helped again, choosing speakers that had a draw that was intentional for marketing purposes.

195 00:23:09.690 –> 00:23:15.437 Jason Swett: And then, on top of that, I would just like manually tell people

196 00:23:16.300 –> 00:23:25.909 Jason Swett: like I do a lot of just like networking calls like, I email people and say, like, Hey, it’s been a while since we’ve talked. Want to have a call to catch up, or whatever.

197 00:23:25.910 –> 00:23:26.250 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

198 00:23:26.250 –> 00:23:28.069 Jason Swett: I do that because that has

199 00:23:28.370 –> 00:23:36.210 Jason Swett: it has a lot of business benefits. And it’s just like I enjoy talking to people and having relationships and stuff like that.

200 00:23:36.210 –> 00:23:36.590 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

201 00:23:38.030 –> 00:23:45.459 Jason Swett: And so I did that before the conference. And I’m like, Hey, just so, you know, I’m putting on this conference, and a lot of people didn’t know about it.

202 00:23:45.590 –> 00:23:49.690 Jason Swett: and some people I told them about it, and then they bought a ticket.

203 00:23:49.830 –> 00:23:51.519 Travis Dockter: So that was.

204 00:23:51.800 –> 00:23:59.509 Jason Swett: That definitely worked more than 0 times. I don’t remember how many people bought tickets because of that. Not a lot of people, but at least some.

205 00:23:59.510 –> 00:24:00.250 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

206 00:24:01.470 –> 00:24:08.480 Jason Swett: And you know, I talked about it. I talked about the conference on my podcast and on social media and

207 00:24:08.740 –> 00:24:11.699 Jason Swett: sent emails to my email list and

208 00:24:12.180 –> 00:24:25.630 Jason Swett: sent letters in the mail to my snail mail programming newsletter recipients. Yeah, basically, any way that I could tell people I was, I was using all the channels that I already had.

209 00:24:26.150 –> 00:24:29.659 Travis Dockter: Yeah, yeah. So you you have a.

210 00:24:30.710 –> 00:24:44.955 Travis Dockter: you’re probably the 1st organizer that I’ve talked to who has like a a real following online. That you could kind of use to to help market this?

211 00:24:46.770 –> 00:24:50.379 Travis Dockter: yeah, that definitely definitely helps. But I love that.

212 00:24:50.710 –> 00:24:56.649 Travis Dockter: Just, you know, telling people that you’re you’re putting on a conference. That’s probably something that

213 00:24:57.660 –> 00:25:07.450 Travis Dockter: you know you wouldn’t think of as a marketing tool. But it does work, and especially, you know, if you’re just putting on a a conference with

214 00:25:07.620 –> 00:25:09.269 Travis Dockter: a hundred people?

215 00:25:09.940 –> 00:25:17.899 Travis Dockter: you know every every ticket counts, and if you tell 5 people and they buy tickets, as that was well worth the well worth the time.

216 00:25:18.270 –> 00:25:18.720 Jason Swett: Yeah.

217 00:25:18.720 –> 00:25:19.250 Travis Dockter: I love that.

218 00:25:19.250 –> 00:25:47.110 Jason Swett: Yeah. And and you know, I was talking mainly about marketing on the sales side. There wasn’t a lot to that, because it’s not like I was negotiating prices or anything like that, although sometimes I did, you know, sometimes people were like, Hey, I can’t really afford 500 bucks, because that’s how many, how much the tickets were. I’m like, all right, like, you don’t have a job right now I get that like, what what could you afford, and maybe I’d give them the ticket for something less.

219 00:25:48.026 –> 00:25:54.630 Jason Swett: And that’s still fine, because, like that helps with the hotel room, block obligation and stuff like that.

220 00:25:54.630 –> 00:25:55.260 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

221 00:25:56.950 –> 00:26:03.090 Jason Swett: And I had people ask for student discounts and stuff like that, and my policy was just like

222 00:26:03.560 –> 00:26:07.589 Jason Swett: whatever like I’ll I’ll take some amount of money.

223 00:26:07.700 –> 00:26:20.110 Jason Swett: anything whatever, just to get people there, because it was almost more helpful to have people there than to have the revenue, because every like missing seat cost a lot of money.

224 00:26:20.260 –> 00:26:20.980 Travis Dockter: Right.

225 00:26:20.980 –> 00:26:24.919 Jason Swett: Yeah. And so just any way, I could get people there.

226 00:26:25.210 –> 00:26:36.434 Travis Dockter: Yeah. So you you said lost money the last year, just because of, you know, agreements with the hotel that were exorbitant 1st year?

227 00:26:37.130 –> 00:26:39.919 Travis Dockter: also, just because it, you know, small.

228 00:26:41.100 –> 00:26:46.020 Travis Dockter: did you break even, or or make a little bit of money? How did that go the second year.

229 00:26:46.020 –> 00:26:48.340 Jason Swett: 1st year lost about 2,000 bucks.

230 00:26:49.520 –> 00:26:52.089 Jason Swett: Yeah, I think it was like

231 00:26:52.440 –> 00:27:04.210 Jason Swett: the costs were around 10,000. The revenue was around 10,000, but they were a little bit off in such a way that I lost about 2,000 bucks. I don’t remember the exact numbers, but it was.

232 00:27:04.210 –> 00:27:04.720 Travis Dockter: Awesome.

233 00:27:04.720 –> 00:27:06.180 Jason Swett: Roughly in that range.

234 00:27:06.730 –> 00:27:09.420 Travis Dockter: And then how was the how was the second year.

235 00:27:09.940 –> 00:27:15.240 Jason Swett: The second one was bigger. I think it was like 60 or so people who came to that one.

236 00:27:15.240 –> 00:27:15.780 Travis Dockter: Nice.

237 00:27:16.265 –> 00:27:19.664 Jason Swett: And the revenue and expenses were more.

238 00:27:20.370 –> 00:27:24.440 Jason Swett: I don’t remember. Maybe it was like $30,000 in and out

239 00:27:25.015 –> 00:27:30.220 Jason Swett: and then we ended up making a few 1,000 bucks on the second year Gotcha.

240 00:27:30.220 –> 00:27:32.939 Jason Swett: And the 3rd year the 3rd year was the worst.

241 00:27:33.414 –> 00:27:40.299 Jason Swett: Well, actually, okay. So like 80 people or so ended up coming. So it was the best in that sense.

242 00:27:40.300 –> 00:27:40.620 Jason Swett: right?

243 00:27:40.620 –> 00:27:49.189 Jason Swett: Financially, it was the worst, because we couldn’t do it at the Tropicana anymore. We did it at the Mgm. Grand, and there

244 00:27:49.360 –> 00:27:52.080 Jason Swett: they were much more expensive.

245 00:27:52.640 –> 00:28:03.980 Jason Swett: and they were stricter on what we had to have like. For example, at Tropicana we had no food and beverage minimum, but at Mgm. Grand we had that very large food and beverage minimum.

246 00:28:03.980 –> 00:28:04.770 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

247 00:28:05.675 –> 00:28:17.300 Jason Swett: So I don’t know the exact number, but when we when we settled up with the

248 00:28:17.400 –> 00:28:22.660 Jason Swett: with the Mgm. Grand after the conference, so we paid them some amount up front.

249 00:28:23.808 –> 00:28:26.620 Jason Swett: And then, because we had like

250 00:28:26.720 –> 00:28:41.830 Jason Swett: people missing from the room block, and we had to spend money on food and beverage and stuff like that. We had to like settle up after that, and they gave us a final additional bill, and that additional bill was about 20,000 bucks.

251 00:28:42.608 –> 00:28:46.432 Jason Swett: That doesn’t mean we lost 20,000 bucks.

252 00:28:47.030 –> 00:28:53.519 Jason Swett: but it was. It was in that neighborhood. It was like somewhere between 10 and 20,000 bucks is how much we lost.

253 00:28:54.180 –> 00:28:56.287 Travis Dockter: Yeah. Was that

254 00:28:57.840 –> 00:29:06.229 Travis Dockter: Was that why you knew it was going to be more expensive? Was that why you decided to have sponsors the 3rd year, or would you have had sponsors the 3rd year, regardless.

255 00:29:08.250 –> 00:29:25.090 Travis Dockter: One of the things I I like about your conference is you keep it very simple like, you know, there’s you choose the speakers you don’t have like catering, you know, like you, you keep it very simple, and that’s

256 00:29:25.540 –> 00:29:26.534 Travis Dockter: very

257 00:29:29.070 –> 00:29:55.023 Travis Dockter: I guess, inspiring. Or it’s just like, Oh, maybe I maybe I can do a conference, because, I’ve been to Jason’s conference. And it’s amazing. And I know multiple people who have said it was their favorite conference, and it kind of shows you you don’t need to have, you know, T-shirts and lunch and all this stuff to put on a good conference that people really enjoy

258 00:29:55.400 –> 00:30:09.609 Travis Dockter: and maybe maybe I could do it without a huge financial risk. Or, you know, without like having a full time job of of doing a conference. But did that? Did that.

259 00:30:09.660 –> 00:30:22.499 Travis Dockter: you know, keeping it simple was not having sponsors those previous years. Did that add a lot of work? And and did you just do it because you knew the the expenses were going to be more that year?

260 00:30:22.920 –> 00:30:28.339 Jason Swett: I actually don’t remember. But I think so. I think I did that because I knew the expenses were going to be higher.

261 00:30:28.690 –> 00:30:29.120 Jason Swett: Yeah,

262 00:30:30.610 –> 00:30:38.619 Jason Swett: yeah. And I don’t think I would do sponsors again. Because it did add more work, and

263 00:30:38.770 –> 00:30:45.780 Jason Swett: it not like work as in like a whole bunch of time, but just like it took up headspace, you know.

264 00:30:45.780 –> 00:30:46.250 Travis Dockter: Right.

265 00:30:46.645 –> 00:30:50.600 Jason Swett: And it took up a lot more headspace than than

266 00:30:50.750 –> 00:30:53.910 Jason Swett: the time it took, and it just felt kind of.

267 00:30:54.120 –> 00:30:57.109 Jason Swett: I wouldn’t say it wasn’t worth it. But

268 00:30:57.260 –> 00:31:02.140 Jason Swett: well, maybe I would say it wasn’t worth it, because I don’t really want to do it again.

269 00:31:02.320 –> 00:31:08.890 Jason Swett: and, to be honest, I don’t feel like I serve the sponsors all that. Well.

270 00:31:08.890 –> 00:31:09.650 Travis Dockter: Hmm.

271 00:31:10.001 –> 00:31:18.430 Jason Swett: Like. I didn’t have like banners with the sponsor logos and stuff like that, and I think some of the sponsors were expecting that.

272 00:31:18.640 –> 00:31:24.200 Jason Swett: And so I felt bad about that, and I know that that kind of stuff

273 00:31:24.320 –> 00:31:31.270 Jason Swett: is not a strength of mine. And with all this stuff like I want to play to my strengths and not try to

274 00:31:31.590 –> 00:31:35.579 Jason Swett: not try to do these things, that I’m not good at.

275 00:31:35.580 –> 00:31:36.109 Travis Dockter: And then.

276 00:31:36.110 –> 00:31:43.409 Jason Swett: That’s a big part of the reason why I chose to do it, to do everything in such a simple way. Because I know that I’m not.

277 00:31:43.690 –> 00:31:51.229 Jason Swett: I don’t like administrative detail and stuff like that. And so I’m not going to try to take on a bunch of that stuff.

278 00:31:51.490 –> 00:31:58.940 Jason Swett: So I think if I do an event again, I would go back to making it even simpler, and and just do no sponsors.

279 00:31:59.340 –> 00:32:04.260 Travis Dockter: Gotcha. Yeah, that’s a that’s a an interesting

280 00:32:05.393 –> 00:32:07.960 Travis Dockter: approach, because it’s almost like

281 00:32:08.940 –> 00:32:11.780 Travis Dockter: did to have sponsors. And it’s

282 00:32:12.050 –> 00:32:19.290 Travis Dockter: almost required because of the expenses of putting on a conference. So it’s interesting to think about like, what a

283 00:32:19.520 –> 00:32:26.574 Travis Dockter: okay, what can I do to to make this simpler? And could I do it without sponsors?

284 00:32:27.490 –> 00:32:34.890 Travis Dockter: yeah, i i i want to think about that. I I’ll probably end up trying to get sponsors.

285 00:32:36.640 –> 00:32:42.709 Travis Dockter: For my event. But it is interesting to have the option to, to not do that.

286 00:32:44.720 –> 00:32:49.470 Jason Swett: If I may ask, what what stage are you at in the planning of your conference?

287 00:32:49.813 –> 00:33:01.829 Travis Dockter: I am working on on getting a venue right now. I haven’t reached out to any sponsors. I haven’t reached out to any speakers so very early on. I’m planning to have it in

288 00:33:02.090 –> 00:33:05.459 Travis Dockter: so about a year from now. So I’m giving myself

289 00:33:05.590 –> 00:33:12.079 Travis Dockter: a lot of time to to plan it. And I’m glad, because

290 00:33:12.740 –> 00:33:34.296 Travis Dockter: every obviously everything always takes longer than you think it’s going to. And already, like, I’m like, Okay, the 1st step in a conference. I’m gonna do this step by step. 1st step is to get a venue. I’m like, Oh, that’ll take a week, 2 weeks, Max, and that was a month ago that I started. So yeah, it’s

291 00:33:35.100 –> 00:33:41.659 Travis Dockter: It’s I’m glad I gave myself a year. But I want to nail down the venue, and the date 1st

292 00:33:42.190 –> 00:33:46.608 Travis Dockter: step is going to be sponsors and

293 00:33:48.500 –> 00:33:53.729 Travis Dockter: trying to figure out like, okay, this is how much the venue is.

294 00:33:54.140 –> 00:34:22.040 Travis Dockter: I want to set my ticket prices lower as low as possible, so that you know, more people maybe can have the option of attending so that’s gonna depend on how much sponsorship I can get. And I am in the position of not having a following online at all pretty much. I don’t have social media. I have a linkedin

295 00:34:22.219 –> 00:34:24.469 Travis Dockter: that’s pretty much it. Right? So

296 00:34:25.300 –> 00:34:35.029 Travis Dockter: thing to say, Okay, what? If only 20 people show up to this? And they’re all my coworkers, you know. So

297 00:34:35.500 –> 00:34:37.430 Travis Dockter: yeah, the.

298 00:34:38.010 –> 00:35:02.761 Travis Dockter: I want to look for sponsors because I don’t think I can depend on on ticket sales to any degree but I am gonna be doing a lot more marketing because I don’t have that that following and I want to be really creative with that. And try to get this out to to a lot of people. But yeah, I’m in the very, very beginning stages. And

299 00:35:03.270 –> 00:35:08.279 Travis Dockter: I have kind of have a picture of what you know is is coming next, but

300 00:35:08.940 –> 00:35:10.200 Travis Dockter: very early stages.

301 00:35:10.900 –> 00:35:21.740 Jason Swett: And and remind me, I think you told me, and maybe you even said, but again, the connection’s been a little choppy. Are you having it in Albuquerque or somewhere else.

302 00:35:21.740 –> 00:35:23.660 Travis Dockter: Yes, I’m gonna have it in Albuquerque.

303 00:35:23.660 –> 00:35:24.380 Jason Swett: Okay?

304 00:35:24.770 –> 00:35:31.370 Jason Swett: Okay, yeah. And for venues have you looked at like hotels? Non-hotels? What have you looked at

305 00:35:31.370 –> 00:35:34.944 Jason Swett: right now? I’m talking with one hotel and one non hotel.

306 00:35:35.610 –> 00:35:59.036 Travis Dockter: Weirdly, the hotel has actually been more responsive than the non hotel. I really like both of them, particularly because of the area that they’re in is very walkable. There’s a lot of like dining options. And I’ve heard from, you know, you and multiple other organizers to not do catering

307 00:35:59.800 –> 00:36:10.803 Travis Dockter: if you can avoid it, and that area that they are in would be really easy. Because there’s ton of dining options within a you know, 5 min walk?

308 00:36:11.570 –> 00:36:17.480 Travis Dockter: so that’s why I really like that area. And it’s a nice area. So I,

309 00:36:18.730 –> 00:36:22.166 Travis Dockter: hoping to get one of those one of those venues.

310 00:36:23.330 –> 00:36:25.884 Travis Dockter: so yeah. And I’m hoping that

311 00:36:26.760 –> 00:36:30.818 Travis Dockter: Las Vegas is a lot more of a draw.

312 00:36:32.090 –> 00:36:47.730 Travis Dockter: but I I think you know, I’ve talked to a couple people, and they’re like, Oh, yeah, like, I’ve driven through Albuquerque, or I’ve been once, and I really liked it. I think people do have an interest to come here. We’ll see if it’s

313 00:36:47.990 –> 00:36:56.149 Travis Dockter: strong enough. That that, it’ll get people get people out here. But yeah, I I think that

314 00:36:56.721 –> 00:37:12.188 Travis Dockter: it’s worth. It’s worth coming out here. And I’m hoping to put on a conference also. That will that will make it worth it, because there’s like 2 parts to every conference, right? It’s the conference itself. But it’s also the location people

315 00:37:12.880 –> 00:37:31.910 Travis Dockter: would like to make a you know, a trip out of out of most conferences, so that you get the conference. But you also get to like, see a new city, or you get to visit you know some friends, or whatever it is, part of it for me with Sin City Ruby was. I had family out there, so it’s great for me because I went to the conference.

316 00:37:32.830 –> 00:37:37.964 Travis Dockter: I would go visit my aunt and uncle for 2 days, you know. Stay the weekend with them.

317 00:37:38.870 –> 00:37:45.639 Travis Dockter: so yeah, we’ll we’ll see if with if Albuquerque is a draw. But I I

318 00:37:45.810 –> 00:37:51.819 Travis Dockter: especially my 1st conference. I didn’t want to organize it in a place far away.

319 00:37:52.690 –> 00:37:58.649 Travis Dockter: you know, just to try to keep that as simple as possible, and and not add a neat

320 00:37:59.260 –> 00:38:05.349 Travis Dockter: complications there that that would make it harder than it needs to be on my 1st 1st go around.

321 00:38:05.870 –> 00:38:23.539 Jason Swett: Yeah, that’ll be interesting to see a hunch that I have had about Sin City Ruby. Because, you know, you said that I have like a following online and stuff, which is true. But I really struggled to sell tickets for Sin City ruby. And it’s not because people don’t like the conference, because, like.

322 00:38:23.540 –> 00:38:23.929 Travis Dockter: You said.

323 00:38:23.930 –> 00:38:39.019 Jason Swett: A lot of people really are enthusiastic about Sin City ruby. They they love it. Yeah, but the West is just really sparsely populated, you know, other than the coast. The west is very sparse.

324 00:38:39.020 –> 00:38:39.420 Travis Dockter: Right.

325 00:38:39.420 –> 00:38:43.979 Jason Swett: And so I wondered like, is it because there’s not much local draw like

326 00:38:44.090 –> 00:38:47.039 Jason Swett: there’s not a big Nevada ruby community, you know.

327 00:38:47.040 –> 00:38:47.610 Travis Dockter: Right.

328 00:38:49.120 –> 00:38:54.049 Jason Swett: And I imagine there’s not a huge New Mexico ruby community.

329 00:38:54.930 –> 00:39:00.102 Travis Dockter: Not huge. But there are a couple companies in Albuquerque.

330 00:39:01.780 –> 00:39:08.609 Travis Dockter: that. Yeah, that I’m I’m gonna reach out to. And and you know. See if they will. Sponsor. See if they will.

331 00:39:08.610 –> 00:39:08.970 Jason Swett: Hmm.

332 00:39:08.970 –> 00:39:12.980 Travis Dockter: And some people. And there’s also a

333 00:39:13.620 –> 00:39:27.140 Travis Dockter: there’s like a a boot camp, too, at a at a community college here. That I want to reach out to. So I’m hoping I can. I can get a a good number of people locally to come.

334 00:39:27.890 –> 00:39:29.340 Travis Dockter: But yeah, we’ll see.

335 00:39:29.700 –> 00:39:49.549 Jason Swett: Yeah. And I do think people would find it an interesting place to visit. I think there’s something to the idea of like visiting a place that you might not have visited otherwise like when when Adrian Marin had his conference in Romania, which is still going to happen this year, too.

336 00:39:50.100 –> 00:39:54.140 Jason Swett: You know I never would have gone to Romania for any reason, otherwise

337 00:39:54.820 –> 00:39:58.530 Jason Swett: nothing against Romania. But it just wasn’t high on the list, you know.

338 00:39:58.530 –> 00:40:00.218 Travis Dockter: Yeah. Super. Far away.

339 00:40:00.640 –> 00:40:03.343 Jason Swett: Yeah, but I’m really glad I went.

340 00:40:03.840 –> 00:40:11.377 Jason Swett: because, you know, precisely because I never would have gone there otherwise. It’s like Albuquerque.

341 00:40:12.070 –> 00:40:28.100 Jason Swett: you know you might. People might have a reason to go to like Chicago or San Francisco, or whatever, but not always Albuquerque, but they might be interested to go there, precisely because it’s not somewhere that like work would take them to for some other reason.

342 00:40:28.540 –> 00:40:31.812 Travis Dockter: Yeah, yeah, that’s the hope we’ll see.

343 00:40:32.280 –> 00:40:32.960 Jason Swett: Yeah.

344 00:40:34.393 –> 00:40:40.460 Travis Dockter: Do you have any favorite conferences or favorite conference experiences as an attendee.

345 00:40:42.092 –> 00:40:44.930 Jason Swett: I really really liked friendly. Rb.

346 00:40:45.140 –> 00:40:45.700 Travis Dockter: Hmm.

347 00:40:45.700 –> 00:40:50.390 Jason Swett: That’s probably my favorite one, both because of

348 00:40:50.530 –> 00:40:53.920 Jason Swett: the the organizers are great people.

349 00:40:54.040 –> 00:41:05.380 Jason Swett: and the location Bucharest Romania is great, and I took my family, and we took a trip up into the mountains in Romania and stuff like that. That was really cool.

350 00:41:06.830 –> 00:41:12.289 Jason Swett: I think that’s my favorite one. It doesn’t happen anymore. But southeast ruby was really cool.

351 00:41:12.770 –> 00:41:17.270 Jason Swett: Small conference that took place in Nashville. That was Jason Charnes’s conference.

352 00:41:17.270 –> 00:41:18.819 Travis Dockter: Yep. I just talked to him.

353 00:41:19.100 –> 00:41:21.390 Jason Swett: Yeah, I really like those small ones.

354 00:41:21.630 –> 00:41:23.656 Travis Dockter: Yeah, is it?

355 00:41:25.710 –> 00:41:34.099 Travis Dockter: yeah. What? What do you feel like? The the differences are between like a rails Comp or a rails world where there’s thousands of people

356 00:41:34.460 –> 00:41:41.619 Travis Dockter: does the the smaller conferences like, what do you? What do you like about each of those.

357 00:41:42.490 –> 00:41:51.949 Jason Swett: With the big conferences. By the way, I really like rails. World. I’ve only been there once. I went to the one in Toronto, but I really liked that. I thought it was

358 00:41:52.130 –> 00:41:53.915 Jason Swett: really well done.

359 00:41:54.940 –> 00:42:09.869 Jason Swett: At the big conferences like at rails world. I was just like flitting around from person to person, and I never got to spend a lot of time with any one person, because it was like everybody I’ve ever met. Is there.

360 00:42:09.870 –> 00:42:10.220 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

361 00:42:10.220 –> 00:42:12.670 Jason Swett: And so I don’t want to like neglect people.

362 00:42:14.440 –> 00:42:18.350 Jason Swett: But I also like want to be able to spend more than 5 min with people.

363 00:42:18.520 –> 00:42:24.059 Jason Swett: but it wasn’t really possible. I was just being like bounced around like a pinball at the conference.

364 00:42:24.480 –> 00:42:27.410 Jason Swett: So I just kept running into people I knew

365 00:42:29.480 –> 00:42:31.090 Jason Swett: And so that’s like.

366 00:42:31.370 –> 00:42:40.470 Jason Swett: it’s not exactly a good or bad thing. It’s just very different. But what I like about small conferences is you can spend a lot of time

367 00:42:40.570 –> 00:43:01.099 Jason Swett: with people. And ironically, you can meet more people at a small conference than at a big conference, because you’re just like in more contact with the same people you’re like with the same group the entire time. And so you almost can’t avoid meeting almost all the other people there. That’s what I like about that.

368 00:43:01.700 –> 00:43:03.570 Travis Dockter: Yeah, love that

369 00:43:06.670 –> 00:43:10.085 Travis Dockter: Were there any experiences

370 00:43:11.680 –> 00:43:15.400 Travis Dockter: specifically that you would like to see like.

371 00:43:16.600 –> 00:43:23.010 Travis Dockter: was there anything about rails? World you said you love rails world? Is there anything about rails world that you think

372 00:43:23.250 –> 00:43:29.270 Travis Dockter: we could replicate in smaller conferences? Or is it unique to that conference?

373 00:43:31.330 –> 00:43:35.630 Jason Swett: I don’t think it’s unique to that conference. I really like

374 00:43:35.820 –> 00:43:46.059 Jason Swett: Amanda Perino’s mindset toward it. She’s the organizer of rails world and the Executive Director of the Rails Foundation.

375 00:43:48.140 –> 00:43:55.430 Jason Swett: She places a high importance on the venue, on the physical space that people are in

376 00:43:56.176 –> 00:43:59.379 Jason Swett: and I think it makes a really big difference.

377 00:44:00.130 –> 00:44:03.329 Jason Swett: And after that one in Toronto.

378 00:44:03.520 –> 00:44:15.909 Jason Swett: Dhh went on the remote ruby. Podcast. I believe it was. And he talked about how it really makes a big difference, being in a nice venue, that one in Toronto. It was like a

379 00:44:16.090 –> 00:44:19.873 Jason Swett: kind of indoor outdoor space.

380 00:44:20.930 –> 00:44:24.630 Jason Swett: The the weather just happened to be perfect. It was like

381 00:44:24.790 –> 00:44:37.720 Jason Swett: room temperature outside pretty much so you like kind of couldn’t tell even if you were like inside or outside. It’s like I’m inside, but we’re breathing the fresh air of the outdoors, and you know,

382 00:44:38.730 –> 00:44:57.539 Jason Swett: And there were like a bunch of trees inside. And so it was very green and verdant inside, and it was just really nice. It was like a pleasant, relaxing atmosphere. It wasn’t some soulless, windowless basement or something like that.

383 00:44:57.540 –> 00:44:58.050 Travis Dockter: -

384 00:44:58.050 –> 00:45:07.729 Jason Swett: Which you know, most conferences are like that, and it’s not the worst thing in the world, but it’s just so cool to be in a cool space.

385 00:45:07.730 –> 00:45:08.520 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

386 00:45:08.520 –> 00:45:10.395 Jason Swett: So that was like that.

387 00:45:10.960 –> 00:45:16.219 Jason Swett: My recollection is that southeast ruby in Nashville

388 00:45:16.510 –> 00:45:29.649 Jason Swett: was in like a pretty cool hotel in a cool spot that added a lot to it. Friendly Rb. Had a similar thing going. They had a cool venue. And being in Bucharest, was

389 00:45:29.940 –> 00:45:35.560 Jason Swett: it really added to it so I think the physical feel of the venue makes a big difference.

390 00:45:35.630 –> 00:45:40.579 Travis Dockter: Nice. Yeah, yeah, I haven’t been to rail’s world. And

391 00:45:41.551 –> 00:45:47.460 Travis Dockter: yeah, didn’t get a ticket this year, either. But I hope to to make it one day. Because I

392 00:45:47.630 –> 00:45:53.461 Travis Dockter: I’ve heard, yeah, just a lot of good stuff. About that conference

393 00:45:54.180 –> 00:45:59.963 Jason Swett: And it’s it’s 1 of the few conferences that just sell out like that.

394 00:46:01.500 –> 00:46:04.290 Travis Dockter: Which is is interesting.

395 00:46:06.300 –> 00:46:23.429 Travis Dockter: I don’t know. Why do you? Do you think that’s because that, it’s you know, it’s dhh? And the Rails foundation behind it? Or why does that sell out so quickly? Why are people so so eager to to go to that conference that it sells out within half an hour.

396 00:46:23.770 –> 00:46:25.729 Jason Swett: Yeah, I think it’s dhh.

397 00:46:25.730 –> 00:46:26.390 Travis Dockter: Yeah.

398 00:46:26.390 –> 00:46:31.170 Jason Swett: I think it’s because, like that is the Flagship Rails Conference.

399 00:46:32.370 –> 00:46:34.229 Travis Dockter: Yeah, it’s a major draw.

400 00:46:34.940 –> 00:46:56.869 Jason Swett: And you know again, Amanda does a really nice job of organizing the conference, but I don’t know if people knew that that was going to happen. You know, people no one had ever attended one the 1st year that it happened, and I think it’s still sold out like instantly. So I think it’s just the draw of Dhh, and the fact that it’s the Flagship Rails Conference.

401 00:46:56.870 –> 00:46:58.099 Travis Dockter: Yep, yeah.

402 00:46:58.760 –> 00:47:14.979 Travis Dockter: okay. I’m I’m gonna put Amanda Perino on my list. So I think she was already on there. But I I would love to talk to her about conference organizing. But are there any other people that you think I should talk to about conference organizing.

403 00:47:15.773 –> 00:47:18.140 Jason Swett: I think you probably have

404 00:47:18.340 –> 00:47:25.340 Jason Swett: all these people on your list already. But I mentioned Adrian. There’s Jeremy Smith.

405 00:47:25.540 –> 00:47:28.929 Jason Swett: Jason Charns charge who you mentioned. You talked to.

406 00:47:29.735 –> 00:47:33.860 Jason Swett: There’s Spike. I’m not sure how to say his last name.

407 00:47:33.860 –> 00:47:34.950 Travis Dockter: Yep. Yep.

408 00:47:34.950 –> 00:47:38.530 Jason Swett: Organizer of Rocky Mountain, Ruby.

409 00:47:38.530 –> 00:47:40.299 Travis Dockter: Yep. Yeah. Talk with him.

410 00:47:40.730 –> 00:47:46.619 Jason Swett: Yeah, yeah. So I think you probably already have most of the same people on your list.

411 00:47:46.620 –> 00:48:02.000 Travis Dockter: Cool. Yeah. Last last bit. Any any advice or words of wisdom or inspiration for any other conference organizers out there that you have.

412 00:48:03.725 –> 00:48:05.209 Jason Swett: Don’t do it!

413 00:48:06.900 –> 00:48:08.590 Travis Dockter: No.

414 00:48:10.280 –> 00:48:22.000 Jason Swett: No definitely do it, but I think I think a really good piece of advice is again the Andy Kroll advice. He wasn’t even intending it as advice, but like

415 00:48:22.580 –> 00:48:35.120 Jason Swett: design it so that it’ll be design it. So it’ll work out okay, no matter how big or small it ends up being. I think that’s a really smart way to approach it.

416 00:48:35.370 –> 00:48:43.539 Travis Dockter: Yeah, I love that awesome alrighty, Jason. Well, I appreciate your time. And I

417 00:48:43.660 –> 00:49:06.380 Travis Dockter: again, just I loved Sin City Ruby. It was part of the the inspiration for me to do this, because, you know, Cincy, Ruby, and Railsconf were the main conferences that I went to both of them ending this year. Kind of got me thinking like, Okay, what am I going to do next year? And then I was like, well, what if

418 00:49:06.510 –> 00:49:10.111 Travis Dockter: I I try my own conference. So

419 00:49:11.550 –> 00:49:19.050 Travis Dockter: thank you again for your time and for Sin City Group itself. And are you going to rails? Conf.

420 00:49:20.630 –> 00:49:23.750 Jason Swett: No plans to as of now.

421 00:49:23.750 –> 00:49:24.950 Travis Dockter: Okay. Alright!

422 00:49:24.950 –> 00:49:29.650 Jason Swett: I’m not sure that I’m not going, but sadly, it looks like probably not.

423 00:49:29.770 –> 00:49:36.679 Travis Dockter: Okay. Alright. Well, I’m sure I’ll I’ll see you around other places, and I’ll talk to you later.

424 00:49:36.980 –> 00:49:38.299 Jason Swett: Alright! Thanks a lot.

425 00:49:38.300 –> 00:49:39.880 Travis Dockter: Alrighty, thanks, Jason.